Band Interviews

Cynic

Despite being one of the most impressive NWoHM band in terms of heaviness and straightforward compositions, Cynic remains quite unknown and obscure to this day, probably due to the fact the band only ever released a 7” single as only legacy (now a very rare and costly piece) . However this single can easily compare with the best from the movement like Hollow Ground, Stormqueen or JJ’s Powerhouse. This interview was conducted by Fred Dronsart along with Tim Batkin, of Cynic.

Tim, can we first go back to the early days of the band. Who was involved in the first incarnation of Cynic, when was the band formed and from which part of Great Britain were you all ?

The original line up of Cynic was Shaun Grant, Dom Heptinstall, Barry Pedlingham, Tony Eyres, and me Tim Batkin. I had been at Dyson Perrins Secondary School with Shaun from 1973 -1978, and had begun playing in a band called Renegade with Shaun -playing stuff like Free. Shaun`s best mate was Dom, who played in a local Malvern band called Health Warning, with drummer Mark Simon, and bass player Benjamin Brittain, and other lead guitar Russell Simon, (brother of Mark). Russell and Mark would go onto form Virgin Star, (one of our main rivals around Worcestershire - Mark was a fantastic drummer). Later Mark and Benjamin joined Grim Reaper, and toured in the States a couple of times. Shaun and Dom recruited me into what was to become Cynic around 1980, with Tony and Barry making up the complete band by early 1981. We were all from or around Malvern - Worcestershire. Shaun and Dom lived near a pub in Malvern called the Herefordshire House - otherwise known as the Herry. This became a centre for many of the NWOBHM bands and musicians to hang out, and our single Suicide used to play on the juke box most nights, while we got pissed and spoke to other musos about a gig we had just done, or they had etc. Cynic had a lot of respect from the local musos becuase of our ability on our instruments - we also had a lot of musos who particularly did not like us - maybe again because of our ability?

If I’m correct the band recorded the “Do or Die” demo in 1981. Please give us the tracklisting again as well as the place it was recorded. Did the band record this demo with the intention to shop it around and attract some interest from labels and clubs ?

Yes we recorded Do or Die demo the day after Shaun`s birthday if memory serves me so it would have been 6th September 1981, at a local recording studio in Malvern. Paul was the engineer who now is the Editor of a magazine which reports on Home Recording. We were all in one room with no separation of instruments, and no multi tracking - except for Guitar Solos and Vox, so it is very much a live feel. You can hear the guitars feeding back during the Drum Solo on Eight Below for instance. I seem to remember that Shaun`s guitar, a Grant Gibson SG replica failed on the day, and so he had to use the studios guitar synth, which was a little unusual for him. I was using a Maxwin drum kit with Ludwig 400 snare drum, and Dom was using a Fender Strat. The tracks recorded were Kilroy, Do or Die, Eight Below with Drum Solo, and Faithless One. All recorded in one day!

What was the gear used in the studio and on stage ?.

Shaun used a Grant guitar with Hiwatt amp and Marshall speakers. Later he would use an Aria, and then Charvell guitars.
Dom used Fender Strat with Laney amps, (he was given these by Laney), later he would use Ibanez, and Washburn guitars.
I used Maxwin by Pearl with Ludwig 400 snare and Ludwig Speedking pedal in the early days, later a Tama Superstar, up to a double bass drum version in the Late Eighties. Through the Nineties, (when not in Cynic) I used a 12 piece Tama with Tama timbales Gretsch Maple Snare, and ten piece electronic Simmons kit behind - basically the same kit Neil Peart used, and Zildjian cymbals. I now use Tama Superstar, and ddrum 4 SE electronics, with DW hardware, and (through sponsorship with Sabian Cymbals) use Sabian Paragon Neil Peart signature cymbals.
I think Barry had a Fender Precision Jazz bass.
Neil (who replaced Barry later) used Yamaha Basses.

Was Cynic playing live regularly back then and was the band having a good fan base on the local scene ?

Yes we were playing live a lot, around a lot of rock venues in and around Worcester. We were on a circuit with Grim Reaper, Virgin Star, Tyga-Myra, so we would be playing venues like The Waterside club in Worcester and you would see Mark Simon in the audience, or Teggie from Tyga-Myra and just play like crazy to blow them away. I was one of the first drummers to regularly play a drum solo, so before too long so would Mark from Virgin Star, and Dom used to do a guitar solo, so we were all trying to to outdo each other. Then the next week we would be in the audience, and they would be getting all their chops out for us to see. Cynic had a large fan base, a motorcycle gang used to follow us around all our gigs. They were called The Webbs, (in their own right a local legend as people used to claim membership of the Webbs - who were not part of the gang) - you may have seen reference to them on our single along with Simon Angwin. In fact Simon, (a very close friend of Mark Simon), sold his sports car to finance the Suicide Recording.

Do you keep any special memories from the early days of Cynic on stage ? How was is in England in the early eighties regarding Heavy Rock and Heavy Metal which were both very popular styles back then ?

I have a Cynic Back Stage Pass, which we introduced to prevent people crashing our gigs and not paying, by claiming they were part of the crew. My memories of playing was one of obsession, working up to 2 hours every day on the drums just to polish chops, never taking time off from it. The first break I had was when I had been trying to get to my drums to play, and had to give in and go to hospital to have my appendix removed - I had nearly had peritonises. I was discharged from hospital early, and was playing the drums again, until my stitches were bleeding. Shaun was the same, and a major driving force for "getting it right".

For me it seemed there was just so much good music around in those days, Led Zep, Deep Purple, Thin Lizzy, UFO, Rush, and no matter how hard we worked we could not get to that level - it is only later looking back, that you can say, actually we were good, and our music has made a valuable statement.

The band then decided to finance and self release (like many others of their contemporaries) a 7” vinyl single in 1983 : the “Suicide /No Time at All” single. How many copies were pressed and why didn’t you release it with a picture sleeve ?

Simon Angwin actually financed the single - we paid him back, but it was he who fronted the money to start with. We pressed 500 singles, some of which have the sleeve on the wrong side, eg Side A has the side B circle on it. I think the reason we did not have a picture sleeve was one of budget. We had recorded Suicide in FSR studios, (Frank Scarf Recording), a large 24 track analogue studio - which did not come cheap. In fact Musical Youth recorded their Pass The Duchy single here - not NWoBHM but you can see the level at which this studio operated at. Also, this was the second studio we had been in to record these tracks - we had gone back to Paul`s studio in Malvern, but we were not happy with the sound, especially for a single release, so we had already blown some of the budget with no tangible result. I wonder what happened to those recordings.

Shaun and I had always wanted to record at Rockfields Studio, just down the road at Monmouth - where Rush recorded A Farewell to Kings etc, but we could not stretch to the £1000 per day fees.

Its funny, I can still remember like yesterday Barry and I chilling out in the studio entertainment room, while Tony was laying down the vocall tracks, we were watching the A Team, so it must have been a Friday night, and playing space invaders - rock and roll!

Which bands did influence Cynic in the early days ?

We were all into Thin Lizzy, UFO, Led Zep. Shaun and I liked Rush. Barry was more into the Death Metal type bands. Dom had influences from Jazz rock acts like Coloseum, Band X, and Billy Cobham - which also influenced my playing.

How did you capitalize on such an impressive single ? Did you get some positive feedback in the press or some interest from a label ?

The single got good local media interest -papers etc, and we did get on local radio a couple of times for interviews. As regards labels, it was the usual painful round of A&R departments, dismissing the single out of hand. Interestingly Virgin records turned it down, and it was nice to get Sir Richard Branson personal interest in the single 22 years later - even although it still has not been signed. We have had some interest in it from SRO - Rush, and Van Halens management, but again although interest no signing.

How did you sell the single and did the band also get some interest or orders coming from abroad ?

We sold the single at gigs, and each member sold them on their own. Many were sold which had been autographed by each band member, (as requested by the buyers). As far as I know none went abroad - although I think a guy from Japan took one back with him.

Do you remember some other local NWoBHM heroes with whom you may have played ?

Yes I remember Vigin Star, Grim Reaper, Tyga Myra, Lance Rocket from Medussa, (great guitar player who used a glammed up Gibson Flying V) who went onto a glam rock band, Wrathchild. We played a support to Grim Reaper a couple of times.

Any other compositions recorded as part of the single recording session but never released ?

No the single recording session only produced Suicide and No Time at All. We did record these tracks previously at another studio, but I am not sure what happened to the masters from these sessions.

I have the master to the single, and maybe one day it would be nice to remix it. The guitar solo on Suicide for instance is Shaun playing two different solo takes, which were mixed down together to get that layered feel you hear to the solo - which I think at the time he was not so sure about, but we liked a lot. Dom played the solo on No Time at All. We only had one day in the studio, and this time there was separate drum booths, and with 24 tracks to play with, plenty of opportunity to multi track, and get good separation to the instruments. I think this is why Suicide is still a strong single to this day, in that we approached its recording in a very professional manner, and used professional studios to record it, and professional pressing houses to press it.

When did the line up from single fell apart ? Some members are said to have joined TYGA MYRA

Yes Barry went onto join Teggie in Tyga Myra. Teggie was actually a very good friend of Neil Orgee who replaced Barry in Cynic, so its a funny old World, how things shape up. Teggie was a Gibson Explorer user, and a very accomplished player.

Not much is known about the history of CYNIC in the second half of the eighties, as it looks like the band continued with a new line up and even recorded a demo in 1987 ( the “Rebel Eye EP”) and another one in 1989 (the “Right between the Eyes” album) . Please give more details about this period and about where the band was going musically.

Yes in the second half of the Eighties Cynic came back with Neil Orgee on bass, and John Ridsdale on vocals. Music was less aggressive and more polished in its production I suppose in those days, and US stadium rock seemed to be the order of the day. Shaun and Dom were heavily influenced by Steve Vai, Jake Lee, Randy Rhodes, Yngwie Malmsteen etc, all those supper fast supper accurate guitar runs which were all the rage then, and I was exclusively listenning to Neil Peart of Rush, so our style was changing. Coupled with John Ridsdale more bluesey influence, made Cynic a different sound overall.

We recorded Rebel Eye in a small secluded studio down in the Cotswalds, and had a weekend in the studio, sleeping in the control room at night. We had an amazing bonding time recording, drinking, telling jokes - it was a real blast. The recordings were good, Rebel Eye, Ten Years fom Now, Feel Love this Time, and Good Hurt, although Feel Love and Good Hurt were a lot softer in their style, still had top guitar solos on them. Ten Years, and Rebel Eye were more hard rock tradition.

This was distributed as a four track EP (in cassette format) with picture sleeve.

The material which became "Right Between the Eyes", was the final swan song for Cynic. John Ridsdale was leaving the band, and we decided to record a good section of the material we had at that time. We used a local Malvern studio called Merlins cave, where the engineer, Steve Jay was a highly regarded local drummer. He and I had many battles, he was a fantastic polyrhythm drummer in the style of Simon Phillips, whilst I was a good soloist.

The recording was over a couple of days, although the Vox tracks got lost in the original mix, and John had to redo a lot of them, so you can hear the strain in his voice. Neil was the most disappointed with the recordings, and refused to listen to them for years.

When did the band finally call it a day for good ?

After John left we had the usual search for singers, and the band was taking a more blues direction, (and while I like occasionally listening to Blues Rory Gallagher Johnny Winter etc) I find playing it boring. Thus I was getting more and more depressed dragging a 12 piece drum kit to rehearsals to play blues, and Dom had taken a dislike to my playing drum solos. Neil had already left the band and a new bassist was in, whom I did not get well with. Shaun and Dom came around to my house one day to say they thought Cynic should disband, I could not argue with them, at the end we were totally frustrated with the whole effort of being in a band. Shaun and Dom carried on, changing the name of the band to Bad Attitude, playing some old Cynic stuff, but mainly new blues material.

I joined forces with Simon Fraser -Clarke and Neil again in a Rush covers band called Tom Sawyer, and played a lot of Rush material, at the annual European Rush conventions - eventually played the Birmingham NEC , this time in a house band with Stewart Gilray and Neil, when Rush were there for their 30th Anniversary Tour

Much to our surprise, you resurfaced around 2004 talking about Cynic on the Old School Metal Show, runned by our friend Grinder from http://www.nwobhm.net. When did you realize the name Cynic hadn’t been forgotten ?

I had a session drumming web page, the only original Cynic member to have this, so was the only one who could be tracked down via the Internet. In 2002 I received an e-mail from Jim Cranford of OPM records in California, asking if I was the drummer who had made Suicide. At the same time a guy from Holland also got in touch. I thought it was some mates taking the piss, but took a phone call from Jim. He wanted to buy any singles I had left - I had a few and sold them onto him at £10 a pop, not realising they could fetch £125 a pop, and were in fact one of the top 50 most valuable records to collect. When I asked Jim about the interest, he said go check out the book NWOBHM and the Internet. I did and was totally taken aback - to think that Suicide had been creating all this interest worldwide and we did not even know about it, it was weird to say the least. One person told me, who was selling Suicide on e-bay, that such was the demand for this record by collectors and fans, and such was the rarity, that people began to wonder if it really existed or whether it was a sort of Holy Grail that had a legend but no one knew for sure if it was true.
Later, checking through the Internet I saw Grinder was playing it on his radio show, and was delighted - so I sent him a copy of all of our material - I believe Do or Die is one of his favourites, and as you know, with Grinders syndication to other stations is now reaching a very large audience per week with his show. I have seen reference to Cynic in Holland, Poland, Japan, France, Germany, Italy, US, Canada, Greece, Switzerland, Sweden so it is very satisfying to have at least reached these people, and given them some music they liked.

Can we consider that Cynic is back together and what are your immediate plans for the band ? Who is in the current line- up ? Any intentions to release the early 80’ demos to the fans ?

Yes Cynic is back together with Shaun, Dom, Tony, Neil and me. We have spoken about re-recording some of our stuff, playing live and recording that for release, and putting out on vinyl some of the early material. We will keep you posted.

Do you have any other live or radio session recordings in your vaults ?

No everything recorded is now out there, excepting the original unused Suicide recordings.

How does it feel being back with this good old british heavy metal ?

It feels great, and its nice to see that 22 years later we still have the facility to play really well. I would love to maybe play The Radio City in New York, release a double live album, a studio album, and do a tour. I would be very happy to see all the hard work finally get a result - not that I am not totally happy with what we have achieved so far.

Thanks for taking the time for this interview Tim. The last words are for you.

Really just a huge thank you, thank you for liking Suicide, thank you for not letting it die in obscurity, and keeping the whole bit of NWoBHM alive. As Shaun says, "Rock is for Life - not just for Christmas".
Take care - see you soon.
Tim Batkin July 2005